Question 3

Curtis Development Principal Charmaine Curtis
Development | San Francisco | Female | 33 Years of Experience 

The black community is consistently, systematically and intentionally denied access to capital.

First of all, I am curious as to who these leaders are. As with any industry, the CRE engine runs on money — and a lot of it. The reason there are not more black people in CRE is that it is a capital-intensive business. Without capital, it is difficult to access capital, which makes it difficult to build a solid base of capital to attract capital, and so the cycle goes. The black community is consistently, systematically and intentionally denied access to capital. Industry leaders should be thinking about ways to change this. How do we change underwriting, lending and investment practices to enable more black people to build a solid base and succeed in the industry? How will we track and measure progress?

Development | Atlanta | Male | 14 Years of Experience 

Silence is tantamount to complicity.

In 1953, when my dad was 15, his dad sat him down and gave him a talk about how to behave when stopped by the police. In 1986, when I was 15, my dad gave me the same talk. Last week, a week shy of my son’s 13th birthday, I gave the talk to my son. The words haven’t changed in more than 60 years. The fact that “the talk” needs to occur at all, not to mention that three separate generations of fathers and sons had to engage in it, is part of the problem.

While my feelings are still raw, I am optimistic that a change can be made. I for one am committed to using my network to foster this effort. We will need everyone to pitch in though. It’s much like terrorism: “If you see something, say something.” Silence is tantamount to complicity. While the participation and energy at the protests have been tremendous, there is much work that needs to be done. I think that the industry should and must be diversified, from the entry-level to the C-suite. In addition to the diversity initiatives that me and a few of my colleagues are working on, a series of metrics need to be established so that firms can measure themselves and be evaluated against a definitive set of goals and objectives. I am excited for the conversation and ready to get to work. My oar is all in.

Project Destined founder Cedric Bobo
Training | Washington, D.C. | Male | 15 Years of Experience 

Now the village of committed leaders is much bigger.

Optimistic. That’s my personality. But my optimism is supported by the fact I am committed to being a leader and participant in driving that change. That was true before Minneapolis — now the village of committed leaders is much bigger. We must sustain the momentum, measuring our success and report it.

Windermere Partners Principal Managing Broker Jasmyn Jefferson
Brokerage | Tacoma, Washington | Female | 17 Years of Experience

I am a realist and do not believe the bulk of the change will happen in my lifetime.

I am cautiously optimistic. If I can’t yield any amount of optimism for our industry, then the only other option is hopelessness and that isn’t how I roll. Going to protests and watching how many white people are showing up to these events and the internal calls to action help me retain that this is the beginning of some change. But I am a realist and do not believe the bulk of the change will happen in my lifetime. Accountability will show up in the executive suite and the boardrooms. It will show up by the brokers that are attracted to their companies. It will show up by staying transparent and asking to be held accountable and fulfilling the plans and promises made.

AAREP Los Angeles President Alicia Bramble
Affordable Housing Asset Management | Los Angeles | Female | 15 Years of Experience 

I’m pretty optimistic that we are going to start seeing a change.

I think sending out a letter and making a pledge is not enough anymore. We want to see numbers. We want to see who is on your executive management team. We want to see who is on your board of directors. If there is not diversity and, specifically, African Americans beyond entry and middle management positions, then you can be assured people will be skeptical about working with you and [will take] their talents elsewhere. I’m pretty optimistic that we are going to start seeing a change with regards to diversity in commercial real estate and other industries as well. We’ve seen a lot of commitments coming out from businesses. I think the penalty is they are going to get called out more often. Their commitment is out there. It’s out in the open.

Amanda Strong
Investment | Cambridge, Massachusetts | Female | 20+ Years of Experience 

Solutions need to be personal, intentional and clear.

I have no idea what “committed themselves to change” means and I am not aware of who in particular you speak of, so I can’t say I have optimism or pessimism. There are no broad-brushed quick solutions. Solutions need to be personal, intentional and clear. Like any good strategy, industry leaders, if committed, should communicate clearly what they intend to do, under what time frame and by what metrics. I will not be able to hold them accountable. That is 100% up to them.

Development | Houston | Male | 12 Years of Experience 

I am optimistic that change will happen.

I am optimistic that change will happen because it feels like this time it has inspired an energy across the entire country among people of all races and backgrounds. The only way to hold leaders accountable is to follow up and ask for the results.

Dominus Commercial Vice President Aaliyah Haqq 
Brokerage | Dallas-Fort Worth | Female | 2 Years of Experience 

Diversity has started to be a check-the-box exercise with statistics that help companies feel good.

I am cautiously optimistic. Once you take a stand against racism, taking back your stand would have tremendous consequences. If you take it back or do not follow through, essentially, what you are saying is you agree with limiting another group’s ability to thrive based on membership to a group they had no choice in joining. If that is the case, what does that say about your own humanity? Teams and companies will hold them accountable. A company’s stakeholders should also hold them accountable. Hopefully, an individual’s moral compass and integrity will also hold them accountable. For some companies, diversity has started to be a check-the-box exercise with statistics that help companies feel good about their diversity programs. Organizations tend to be diverse with whom they are most comfortable. Meanwhile, members of underrepresented communities continue to be left behind. Diversity initiatives that work look at organizations honestly and soberly, have the input of underrepresented groups, are well-integrated into the company’s operations and consider and include all stakeholders.

Massachusetts Port Authority Legal Specialist Tanya Mitchell
Development | Boston | Female | 8 Years of Experience 

Pipelines and succession planning are ways for leaders to stay committed.

I am optimistic; however, there is still so much work to be done. As a woman of color, I make sure that I continue to invest in myself whether through technical, educational or cultural training. I use this knowledge the best way I can to improve myself and my circumstances. Additionally, I do my best to support others in any way I can. If writing this message is a way to open the eyes for even one industry leader, then that makes me hopeful. However, there remains the need for open and honest dialogue and the need for continued educational training at all levels.

Industry leaders should review and update their available contracts, company procurements and RFP language to ensure there is required language seeking minority/women/disadvantaged small businesses to participate in their business opportunities. Additionally, all companies should have comprehensive Diversity & Inclusions plans that actively seek diverse candidates at all levels, especially C-suite candidates.

Pipelines and succession planning are ways for leaders to stay committed. Industry leaders should actively seek individuals out, not only to mentor but sponsor them in corporate settings. If industry leaders have positional or influential power to invite a diverse voice to the table, then they should be challenged to do so. There is a need for diverse voices to be heard and acknowledged. I encourage companies to challenge their leaders, managers and all employees within their organizations to increase their diversity and supplier diversity efforts and tie them to the bottom line.

Investment | London | Male | 15 Years of Experience 

I am hopeful that the increased focus on ESG and ESG rating/reporting highlights the inequality issues in the industry.

I am hopeful that the increased focus on ESG and ESG rating/reporting highlights the inequality issues in the industry. That would be a good start as it will expose companies who do not commit to change and perhaps shame some of them into doing so. I also think the up-and-coming generation of younger millennials, in general, tend to possess a strong value system, placing principles such as equality, diversity, sustainability and social impact above purely financial reward. Companies that seek to hire the best new talent will, therefore, need to adopt values and implement a culture that appeals to these individuals. This gives me hope. 

Project REAP Board of Directors Chair Lamont Blackstone
Nonprofit | New York | Male | 30 Years of Experience 

I will be pessimistic unless we see all of the largest real estate organizations hire and empower chief diversity officers.

I will be pessimistic unless we see all of the largest real estate organizations hire and empower chief diversity officers and make diversity and inclusion an integral part of corporate culture and strategy — even if those roles are considered temporary stints with a finite term of five years until the mission is accomplished. I will be pessimistic until I see CRE firms of all sizes incorporate agents of change such as Project REAP into their network of corporate partners. And just as CRE owners would want a commercial tenant to have the viability to sign and perform over the term of a five-year lease, they should think of such partnerships in five-year time horizons and be willing to commit to them — subject to renewal. The same time frames for planning and developing major mixed-use projects will often be the same time frames for reaping the benefits of human capital initiatives.

You ask what will hold organizations accountable? The answer is that the largest real estate organizations will likely be held accountable by members of their boards of directors (particularly if those boards are diverse), as well as by pension fund investors making diversity and inclusion performance a metric for evaluating equity investment decisions. Smaller developers can be held accountable by mayors and city councils who make diversity and inclusion performance an explicit or implicit criterion for selecting public-private partnership partners.

Property Management | Los Angeles | Female | 25+ Years of Experience 

I have little faith in a system that has been dealing with the same issues for decades.

I wish I could be optimistic about change coming. Unfortunately, I have little faith in a system that has been dealing with the same issues for decades. Yes, there has been some change since the riots in 1993. However, 27 years later, we should be seeing much more progress in racial issues. It is difficult to develop a plan for companies to be held accountable. Many people believe affirmative action laws should be mandatory. Although I am a black woman, I do not think affirmative action is the answer because it is unfair to non-minorities.

Smith Real Estate Services CEO Pamela Smith
Development Consulting | Atlanta | Female | 36 Years of Experience

A level of accountability never seen before in the CRE industry.

Solving racial disparity issues necessitates a commitment to do so by the leader who leads the organization. The corporate leader must firmly believe in and embrace the concept of diversity and inclusion, and they must be strong enough to demand that same level of commitment from the executives who report to him/her. If this is not done then diversity efforts will certainly fail and racial disparity within the organization and the commercial real estate industry will continue. I am optimistic because I personally know commercial real estate executives who are “change leaders” and committed to doing the right thing to eliminate racial disparity in the commercial real estate industry. I also know that company-wide diversity and inclusive growth is an area of concern in the capital markets. For example, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, David Solomon, recently announced that it won’t take companies public anymore unless they have at least one diverse board member. This policy imposes a level of accountability never seen before in the CRE industry.

Peebles Corp. founder and CEO Don Peebles
Investment and Development | Washington, D.C. | Male | 36 Years of Experience 

I don't think the country and the younger generation will actually stand for it.

I am optimistic that it will ultimately happen because I think there is so much pressure on the country right now and businesses as a whole to be inclusive economically and provide fair and equal opportunities. I don't think the country and the younger generation will actually stand for it. I don't think minorities and women as a whole will stand for a continuation and a perpetuation of the unfair system we see in the country. I think the country has made great progress, but progress has been slow. A growing segment of the population has become far less patient. I think that will accelerate the environment of change.

The role of capitalism in our democracy is to provide fair and equal opportunities for the expansion of our society. I don't think our nation will survive in its current state of economic exclusion. The nation obviously will be a better place once we get to a place where all people are included in our prosperity. That's what people are demanding now. I don't think it's going to be easy and I don't think it's going to be nice and neat and pretty. Change, when it comes, it normally comes as the result of some confrontation. You can look at the birth of the nation. It came with a significant element of confrontation. I think we will see more protests. We are not going to see the end of police brutality.

When people hear Black Lives Matter, it doesn't just mean to protect African Americans from police brutality or police abuse. It means that black ambition matters. It means that black economic opportunity matters. Black dreams, black ambitions and black aspirations — that all matters too. That's what people are expecting. If the country recognizes that and the social, business and political power acknowledges that, I think we will see some transformative change. 

Keller Williams Inglewood Commercial Director William Yarbro
Brokerage | Los Angeles | Male | 35+ Years of Experience

You need people who are analytical and on the brokerage side motivated.

It really depends on the level of commitment. Unlike residential real estate, which is based on emotion, CRE is based on numbers and you need people who are analytical and on the brokerage side motivated. The first start is exposure.

Finance | Dallas | Male | 25 Years of Experience

I have seen a lot of changes come about, but only in the last four to five years.

In my time in the industry, I must say I have seen a lot of changes come about, but only in the last four to five years. This would make me cautiously optimistic at best. The proof will be in the pudding as they say. When the management and executive leadership reflects the pool of qualified candidates in the industry the proof of accountability dedication to righting a long-existing injustice will be affirmed. A fair opportunity based on my abilities, my skills and the content of our character is the goal here — not a hand-out.

Roosevelt University, Marshall Bennett Institute of Real Estate Executive Director Collete English Dixon
Investment Management | Chicago | Female | 30+ Years of Experience 

I want to believe that this time the commitment is real.

I am cautiously optimistic because I want to believe that this time the commitment is real and important to the industry. Companies need to declare their intention, put some real metrics around what success looks like, honestly report how they are doing and ask for assistance from organizations that can help.

Cushman & Wakefield Executive Vice Chairman Darian Leblanc
Brokerage | Washington, D.C. | Male | 25 Years of Experience

Change frequently runs counter to the near-term ‘bottom line.’

I’ll remain engaged as the dialogue continues, but for many of us, this isn’t a new topic and experience has taught us caution and patience. I believe that most decision-makers in this industry are good people with good intentions, but this is a tough issue. And change frequently runs counter to the near-term “bottom line,” which can make obviously correct decisions somehow difficult. My view is that our clients will increasingly demand that we provide a diverse workforce and they will vote with their business decisions. The companies that figure that out sooner will benefit. And those that embrace the status quo will fall behind. Decision-makers will be held accountable for their performance.

Innovative Housing CEO Rochelle Mills
Development | Los Angeles | Female | 25+ Years of Experience 

Idle words and sound bites have no value to me.

Who are these “leaders”? And what does “committed themselves to change” mean? I haven’t gotten a call from anyone. I don’t know anyone else who looks like me that has either.

If these leaders are serious enough to make the statement, quantify it and provide a follow up showing that they have done what they said. Let Bisnow document and report on it and I will moderate the look back in one year to see how well they did in meeting their mandate. Idle words and sound bites have no value to me, but accountability does.

Development | London | Male | 6 Years of Experience

I am very wary that commitment will ebb and flow in line with the general public's interest.

I remain optimistic as it would be a sad existence not to believe in progress. I am however very conscious that words need less effort than actions, so I am very wary that commitment will ebb and flow in line with the general public's interest. If industry leaders are truly committed they should make themselves publicly accountable by sharing their strategic plan. Measurable goals and outcomes may seem daunting but provide outsized returns when they are achieved.

Investment | London | Female | 14 Years of Experience

If those companies who refuse to take positive action are hit in their bottom lines they’re more likely to pay attention and reform.

I’m a glass half full person, so I always choose optimism. But it’s cautious optimism. There’s a long road ahead. Being committed to change doesn’t necessarily mean we will see change and even if we do see change, when will that be? One year, five years, a decade, a generation? Some would argue change has been coming for decades already and still hasn’t arrived. But, we have to start somewhere, so why not let that start today?

We should all be encouraged to work with firms who have racial equality high on the agenda and who have demonstrable means to show progress in this area. Equally, we should be encouraged not to do business with those who do not. Arguably one of the biggest factors companies care about is money and profitability. If those companies who refuse to take positive action are hit in their bottom lines they’re more likely to pay attention and reform.

Investment | Chicago | Female | 40+ Years of Experience 

Add inclusion, retention and progression of African American executives and professionals to each manager’s performance metrics.

I’m optimistic that the industry leaders desire to change, given the broad-based public outcry of the last few weeks. However, I’m pessimistic that they will ultimately have the courage to do the hard work to change the systemic exclusionary corporate structures and environment that they themselves have created. In order to hold them accountable to their commitment to change, industry leaders and their board of directors should review their respective organizations and identify the baseline from which they will build. Some of the specific steps they can take are as follows: 

1. Conduct an analysis of how many African American executives and professionals are in every department and set a specific goal to increase that number by a specific multiple within the next 12 months. That goal should be increased on an annual basis. 

2. Add inclusion, retention and progression of African American executives and professionals to each manager’s performance metrics when determining compensation.

3. Calculate their current spend with African American owned companies, i.e. joint venture partners and CRE professional services firms such as lawyers, accountants, property management firms, appraisers — and commit to increase that spend by a specific multiple within the next 12 months. That goal should be increased on an annual basis. 

4. Add at least two African Americans to their board of directors by Dec. 31, 2020.

T. Dallas Smith & Co. Principal Corey Ferguson
Office Brokerage | Atlanta | Male | 17 Years of Experience 

"We're in this together" is becoming more than just a hashtag.

In the past few weeks, the faces of the fight have fueled my optimism. "We're in this together" is becoming more than just a hashtag or tagline, but a reality on the front lines. I am now hopeful that industry leaders will put action to the efforts of change.

T. Dallas Smith & Co. advisor Detra Reid 
Office Brokerage | Atlanta | Female | 12 Years of Experience 

Companies that are not visually represented by a relative percentage of minority employees ... should be restricted from receiving tax incentives, benefits or savings.

I’m optimistic that we are having the discussions. I am not particularly sold on an immediate change, as it takes a very long time to bleed out a mindset that has been so deeply ingrained. I think companies that are not visually represented by a relative percentage of minority employees throughout the company, and more importantly within senior leadership, should be restricted from receiving tax incentives, benefits or savings. Until racial disparity issues affect a company’s bottom line, company leaders can very well remain content with things as they are.

Ackerman & Co. Senior Vice President Steve Langford
Investment Sales Brokerage | Atlanta | Male | 12 Years of Experience 

There appears to be a genuine ‘will’ to make needed changes.

I am cautiously optimistic. The images of a human being murdered at the hands of law enforcement in broad daylight in this country seems to have struck a chord with the American public. It somehow has surprisingly revealed an ugliness in our country that many non-African Americans simply did not want to admit. But as a result, there appears to be a genuine “will” to make needed changes. As for accountability, it all starts at the top. A company’s board of directors and/or its executives can in fact have a diverse workforce by mandate, or as a part of its organizational goals. This is the only way the message and ultimate implementation flows throughout the company. I am not convinced that the absence of such efforts will provide any lasting or meaningful change.

The Michaels Organization Regional Vice President Granvel Tate
Finance | Atlanta | Male | 20+ Years of Experience

The only way real diversity will happen is by recruiting differently.

Honestly, I’m not optimistic that the CRE industry will change quickly. It hasn’t in my 20 years in the industry, but I am hopeful that it will change over the next decade. CRE is made of many small and midsized companies of which many were started as family businesses and thus may be reticent to change. However, for some of the larger companies, the large service providers, private equity companies, developers and REITs, I have hope because I believe their funders will demand that their boards and employees better reflect the demographics of America.

How should CRE companies be held accountable? First, they should publish their diversity goals and chart their progress at least semi-annually on their websites and in their 10-Q or 10-K if applicable. They should be asked how they are progressing on their goals when they are raising funds or making quarterly earnings calls. If they don’t have goals or aren’t meeting them, then funders should look to place their money elsewhere. In addition to employment and board diversity, vendor diversity is also important.

However, the majority of the effort has to be focused on recruiting a diverse generation into the real estate industry and special attention needs to be given to recruiting black and brown people. The only way real diversity will happen is by recruiting differently, starting with on-campus recruiting at HBCUs. Having a philosophy that your company is only seeking the best and the brightest is fine. However, if you are only looking at predominately white institutions you are missing out on a whole segment of the best and the brightest. To the extent CRE companies are not hiring at the undergraduate level, then they need to think how they source their candidates from business schools and recruiters. Do recruiters only send companies white males because those candidates reflect the company’s or the recruiter’s values? Or are they just the easiest to find and “fit”? The problems are systemic. It will take systemic changes to rectify the problems. Many non-CRE companies learned that 20 years ago. It is time that CRE does so as well

Brokerage | London | Female | 4 Years of Experience

So far I have seen more actions on the contrary.

I have to be pessimistic that some industry leaders have committed themselves to change. I have witnessed industry leaders turn a blind eye to overtly racist comments and now that the world is watching, suddenly commit to change. As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words, and so far I have seen more actions on the contrary. However, I am quietly hopeful that with the actions of industry leaders in the future, my pessimism may slowly turn to optimism.  

Seritage Growth Properties Chief Operating Officer Kenneth Lombard
Retail Owner | Los Angeles | Male | 30+ Years of Experience 

We are beginning to make it part of our team’s responsibility to be inclusive in terms of how we hire and recruit.

I feel a level of cautious optimism that we’ve entered into an environment where accountability will be part of the equation and measurement. We are beginning to make it part of our team’s responsibility to be inclusive in terms of how we hire and recruit — this is an active part of our conversation at the highest levels. It’s got to be that CEO who has decided that this is top of mind and important and relayed. There has to be accountability. Until it becomes part of everyone’s overall compensation plans, that is the type of accountability that has to become part of the overall landscape. I think if we’re going to be successful. We can’t wait five to 10 years. We have to start implementing these changes immediately.

Residential brokerage | technology | Dallas | Male | 5 Years of Experience

We’re not letting anyone off the hook.

I'm optimistic this will happen because the efforts you see now means we’re not letting anyone off the hook — and [we] will certainly call you out on it. You hashtag Black Lives Matter and it will never die, as long as the power of the people continues to feed it. Accountability is about being held to a standard for your actions and those actions are at the root of humanity. Talking and creating policies around racism is important. Reaching out in the community and getting involved to elevate the black community is a big deal.